Transcript
Preface
The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Dorothy Cravath on May 13, 1964 and May 27, 1964. The interview took place in Berkeley, California, and was conducted by Minette Martin for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution.
The original transcript was edited. In 2023 the Archives retranscribed the original audio and attempted to create a verbatim transcript. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Additional information from the original transcript has been added in brackets and given an –Ed. attribution.
Interview
[00:00:08.16]
MINETTE MARTIN: Minette Martin interviewing Dorothy Cravath at the home of Leota Molten, 161 Vicente Road, Berkeley, California, on May 13, 1964. Mrs. Cravath, I would like to know a little bit about your background, when and where you were born, and something about your training in art.
[00:00:37.90]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I was born in San Antonio, Texas, strangely enough, in 1901. And my only formal training in art was at the then California School of Fine Arts, which is now the San Francisco Art Institute.
[00:00:56.56]
MINETTE MARTIN: What years were that? Do you remember?
[00:01:00.52]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Ah—let me see. I started when I was 17, which would be in about—shut it off while I think of—
[00:01:32.40]
[Recorder stops, restarts.]
[00:01:32.52]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: It was about 1918 or '19, just after the First World War.
[00:01:38.94]
MINETTE MARTIN: Specifically, what kind of training did you have?
[00:01:41.73]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: At that time, it was quite different from the setup now. It was life drawing and design, commercial art, and painting, oil painting, and that was it. Sketch, also.
[00:02:01.08]
MINETTE MARTIN: You didn't have any specific training in fresco technique.
[00:02:05.31]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: None whatever. They didn't have any mural classes up there, or, in fact, any classes in technique except in painting, and very little of that. The technique was to give you paints and say, "Now express yourself."
[00:02:23.04]
MINETTE MARTIN: I would like to know when you got on the WPA or the Federal Arts Project, and, specifically, what projects you were on, on the Federal Arts Project.
[00:02:40.42]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I was on one project only, and it was quite a large project. It was the murals—half of the murals, rather—at the Fleishhacker Memorial Mother's House at Fleishhacker Zoo. Helen Forbes and I collaborated. She did half the murals, and I did the others. And the project was the PWAP, which was the first Federal Arts Project to be started.
[00:03:09.46]
MINETTE MARTIN: I understand from other people that the Coit Tower here in San Francisco was the first project to be started.
[00:03:18.92]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I'm not sure which project started first. We all started just about simultaneously, as I remember. They may have been slightly before us, or we may have started before they did. But my recollection is that everything started at once because everybody was trying to get the setup going so that all the artists that could be employed, would be employed rapidly before the PWAP folded [laughs], so to speak.
[00:03:51.41]
MINETTE MARTIN: In other words, everybody sort of wanted to get in on a good thing while it was still going.
[00:03:54.91]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: They wanted to get in on a good thing while it was still going, and everybody thought it was so great that somebody was subsidizing the artists, and letting them paint what they—paying them to paint. Up to that time, nobody paid them to paint. A few people bought pictures, and nobody knew what murals were.
[00:04:14.90]
MINETTE MARTIN: In a previous conversation with you, I understand that they were called in San Francisco "muriels."
[00:04:19.55]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, yes, they're called "muriels" still by various people. In fact, some of them are called "fiascos." [They laugh.]
[00:04:30.98]
MINETTE MARTIN: I would like to know more about the project at the Fleishhacker Zoo. Did you do preparatory sketches for this?
[00:04:39.77]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: We did indeed. We, uh—Let me see if I can remember just the sequence of events. Helen Forbes and I had been drawing animals out at the Fleishhacker Zoo for a couple of years for our own pleasure and amazement before the PWAP came along. And when the PWAP started, everyone was trying to get projects going, so that the artist could be employed quick, before the funds ran out. And someone asked me if I—since I'd been doing animals, if I would like to do the zoo murals. And I thought I would, and so a bunch of us had dinner in Chinatown and tried to decide who would try out for what. And Helen Forbes and I decided that we would try out for the Fleishhacker Zoo, and that's what we did.
[00:05:38.56]
And at first it was a very small project, and we decided that the whole wall would be better than the lunettes, which was what they offered us at first. And we thought that if we did good enough sketches for the entire wall and had a project going for the whole thing, it might lead to something bigger than what we'd been offered.
[00:06:02.28]
MINETTE MARTIN: What was the subject matter of the Fleishhacker Zoo murals?
[00:06:06.11]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Well, that was up to us, but we decided that a serious treatment of the theme of Noah's Ark would be appropriate to the zoo, and allow us to use all our animal sketches that we'd made for the past two years.
[00:06:19.46]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. That's very interesting. Did you have any supervisors on the Fleishhacker Zoo murals?
[00:06:30.80]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Our immediate supervisors were Bill Gaskin and Joe Allen. I think he was Joe. Anyhow, they came out every once in a while and looked over what we were doing, but they didn't have very many suggestions. I think they worked on this idea that the artists who were at the head of each of the projects knew what they were doing, and their job was just to see that the job continued and that they had what they wanted and so on.
[00:07:07.43]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Where did you learn about mural technique, about fresco?
[00:07:11.81]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: As a matter of fact, I learned about mural technique from Diego Rivera, which is why all these WPA murals look rather Rivera-ish. I think we all learned about fresco from watching Diego Rivera do the mural in the art school.
[00:07:28.29]
MINETTE MARTIN: Did you just watch him, or did you work with him?
[00:07:30.64]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: We just watched him. I didn't work with him at all.
[00:07:34.39]
MINETTE MARTIN: There were some artists out here, however, who did work with Rivera.
[00:07:37.11]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Some artists did. Victor Arnautoff had worked in Mexico with Rivera, and he helped him out here. Matt Barnes was a very good artist. He was plastering for Rivera. He was a plasterer by trade, and an artist by profession, so to speak, and he was his plasterer. Victor Arnautoff helped him, and, uh, three or four other people helped him in various capacities.
[00:08:07.62]
MINETTE MARTIN: What would you say about the influence of Rivera in other parts of the country?
[00:08:12.78]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Other parts of the country I wouldn't know, but his influence was certainly profound out here because practically no one had ever seen a mural done, let alone a fresco [laughs]. I think there were about two people—I think—let me see. Helen Forbes had studied in Italy a little bit and knew the fresco formula and, theoretically, how it was done, but she'd never done a mural. And I think Ray Boynton had studied abroad, too and knew how fresco was done. Victor Arnautoff had worked with Diego Rivera, and as far as I know, that's about it. The rest of us had never done murals.
[00:08:53.93]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:08:54.11]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Here we were faced suddenly with large walls to put murals on.
[00:08:57.53]
MINETTE MARTIN: What were the dimensions of those walls?
[00:09:00.68]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Uh—you mean the—
[00:09:01.63]
MINETTE MARTIN: The size.
[00:09:01.91]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: —Coit Tower or the Mama House—the Mother House?
[00:09:05.36]
MINETTE MARTIN: The Mother House at the Fleishhacker Zoo.
[00:09:09.08]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: There were 68—there were two 68-foot walls and two 28-foot walls. And they were about 10 and 12 feet high, respectively.
[00:09:23.10]
MINETTE MARTIN: You must have used ladders to get around it.
[00:09:26.58]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, we had scaffolds all over the place. As a matter of fact, they—let me see. I don't know where they got this material, but they had a tremendous lot of lumber, and they covered the entire interior of the Mother House with scaffolds.
[00:09:44.37]
MINETTE MARTIN: I think I've seen some photographs of at least of Helen Forbes working on these things in overalls.
[00:09:51.15]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Uh-huh [affirmative]. I have some of both of us working. Oh, that was the photographic project of the WPA, by the way.
[00:09:58.76]
MINETTE MARTIN: Oh?
[00:09:59.52]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: There was a photographic project too.
[00:10:01.42]
MINETTE MARTIN: I see.
[00:10:01.75]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: And they came out and took us, and I think they probably took other people, too, working.
[00:10:08.82]
MINETTE MARTIN: It really—in other words, all these projects, the photographic and the artists and the, um—
[00:10:15.21]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: —dancers, musicians.
[00:10:16.13]
MINETTE MARTIN: —dancers, and the writers—they were all sort of interrelated as much as possible. Is that right?
[00:10:22.32]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Uh—they were hunting—all the WPA people were engaged in employing as many artists, writers, dancers, et cetera, et cetera, as they could, on whatever project came up.
[00:10:36.00]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:10:37.65]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: If the artists, et cetera, had a project of their own, that was fine. If not, they'd put them to work at some project that they thought up, you see.
[00:10:46.05]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:10:46.56]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Anything to keep them busy and creating, which was fine with us.
[00:10:50.43]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, I understand that in the Writers' Project, at least out here, a California Art Research project was created in which biographies of California artists were done.
[00:11:06.96]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Yes, that's true. And they must be somewhere around now. I have mine. I know several other people who have theirs. There must be some central place—I hope there's some central place where they have them.
[00:11:21.03]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, I think that they're probably in the Library of Congress now.
[00:11:27.14]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Probably. But out here, I mean, there should be something.
[00:11:29.81]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, I know that the Oakland Public Library, for instance, has a complete set of these.
[00:11:34.58]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Does it?
[00:11:34.91]
MINETTE MARTIN: I've seen them there. The other thing that I want to ask you about was your assistants on the project, if you can possibly remember how many you had, or who they were.
[00:11:46.34]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I can remember who I had. There were four to each of us. Helen Forbes had charge of one end wall and one side wall, and I designed one side wall and one end wall. And we collaborated. We worked together, and we worked out the idea. And we coordinated our technique as much as possible, and that was quite a job, because we were quite different in our outlook when we began. But I think we came fairly close to having a unified project.
[00:12:17.21]
And we each had four assistants, and we had to keep them busy even while we were designing the things, which was a little difficult. I remember we had them—Helen set them—set all our assistants to work making portfolios, to keep them out of our hair, and I had one answering the phone. We had a very elegant set-up for a while.
[00:12:41.25]
MINETTE MARTIN: [Laughs.]
[00:12:42.42]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: But let me see. Jay Risling helped me, and there were different ones at different times.
[00:12:48.00]
MINETTE MARTIN: Is Jay Risling still around?
[00:12:50.28]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Yes, he is. He's a photographer, and he's also an artist.
[00:12:53.67]
MINETTE MARTIN: Is he in San Francisco?
[00:12:54.81]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Yes, doing photography now on his own. Very good photographer. But at that time, he was on the WPA as an artist, which he is. And let me see. Florence—oh, I had better get a list of these people, because I can't think just offhand all of them.
[00:13:19.65]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, fine. I'll try to get that from you later.
[00:13:26.46]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: John Collier—
[00:13:27.90]
MINETTE MARTIN: John Collier.
[00:13:29.70]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: —helped me for a while.
[00:13:31.87]
MINETTE MARTIN: What did he do?
[00:13:34.17]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Um, same thing as the others. Each one did a certain thing, so that the whole effect would be unified. For instance, Jay did all the lumber work. He painted the trees and the ark on mine.
[00:13:49.71]
MINETTE MARTIN: I see.
[00:13:50.31]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Clay Spohn painted the trees and the ark on Helen Forbes's. And then some one else did the grass, and someone else did something else. I did the figures, and Helen did her figures.
[00:14:06.27]
MINETTE MARTIN: Who did the animals?
[00:14:07.77]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I did on mine, and Helen on hers. And we had our assistants doing endless miles of grass, and rocks, and trees, and arks, and so on and so forth.
[00:14:22.38]
MINETTE MARTIN: Do you think that the various people working on this particular mural unified the whole thing eventually? I mean, do you feel that the whole mural was a unified work of art, despite the fact that so many people worked on it?
[00:14:39.97]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, I think it was, yes. As a matter of fact, most people think one artist did it.
[00:14:46.84]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
[00:14:47.59]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: However, I don't think that it's that—quite that unified. I think Helen's style is quite distinctive, and I think mine is somewhat distinctive. But we tried to get them as close as we could together. And the fact that we had one person work on grass unified the murals to a certain extent, and one person working on certain things all through the mural helped.
[00:15:18.35]
MINETTE MARTIN: I understand that recently you have been doing some restoration in the Coit Tower of the Coit Tower murals. This is—
[00:15:29.25]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Yes, I did. I spent about two years restoring the damages that had been done. I wasn't restoring the damages. I was restoring the murals. [They laugh.]
[00:15:41.79]
MINETTE MARTIN: In other words, you were making them whole—
[00:15:42.81]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I was removing the damages.
[00:15:43.77]
MINETTE MARTIN: —after the damages.
[00:15:45.63]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: That's right.
[00:15:46.68]
MINETTE MARTIN: And I also understand that you have a list of all the artists who had worked on the Coit Tower murals.
[00:15:55.32]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Yes, I have. I haven't a list of all the assistants. I have a list of all the principals. There are about 52 altogether, counting assistants, and there were around, I believe, 17 murals. I'm not quite sure about that now, but I think 17 separate murals, which means 17 master artists, so to speak.
[00:16:17.13]
MINETTE MARTIN: Do you remember some of the principal people offhand?
[00:16:23.91]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: John Howard, Ralph Stackpole, Bernard Zakheim, Suzanne Sheuer, Victor Arnautoff, Freddie Vidar—oh, dear. Wait a minute. Shut it off a bit, and I'll—
[00:16:46.22]
[Recorder stops, restarts.]
[00:16:46.52]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Ray Boynton, did I say, and Maxine Albro and Parker Hall, Edith Hamlin, Ralph Stackpole, Ben Cunningham, Clifford White, Ralph Chessé, Jane Berlandina, Edward Terada, Lucien Labaudt, George Harris, Gordon Langdon, and John Howard. And those are the ones I think of at the moment, and I'm almost sure that that's all.
[00:17:14.60]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, of course, we can get a list, you know, later of the things that you've worked on, how many people.
[00:17:20.69]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, in the center of the edifice where the elevator goes up, and where the desk and office is, there were oil murals. They were the only ones done in oil, and there are four large ones. And they are by Rinaldo Cuneo and Otis Oldfield.
[00:17:44.58]
MINETTE MARTIN: What was, in general, the subject of the murals in the Coit Tower?
[00:17:49.29]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Um—California industry and activities, what was going on in California at the time. There's one of miners, and by the way, there's a lot of—was a lot of social consciousness at that time, naturally. It was the Depression. So these miners are very determined-looking and rather gaunt and scraggly, and there are people picking things out of dust heaps, and whatnot. And there's fruit-growing, and dairying, and canning industry, and libraries, and leisure activities, all sorts of things. Everything that went on, the big categories of things that went on in California in the '30s.
[00:18:36.09]
MINETTE MARTIN: Insofar as the people who worked on the murals is concerned, are most of them still living?
[00:18:41.94]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: About half of them, I would say. Otis Oldfield is still living. Cuneo is dead. Stackpole is living. Ray Boynton is dead. Lucien Labaudt is dead. Clifford White, I do not know about. He left for England years and years ago. Ralph Chessé is still living, Berlandina, Terada, George Harris. Gordon Langdon is dead. Parker Hall is living. John Howard is living. Perhaps [Arnautoff is living –Ed.], and Stackpole is living. I think that more of them are still alive than have died, but several of them have died.
[00:19:27.80]
MINETTE MARTIN: Despite the fact that you worked only on the Fleishhacker Zoo murals during this period and under the WPA projects, you knew about many of the other things that were going on here?
[00:19:40.25]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, yes, we all knew each other. In the '30s, there weren't so many artists, or dancers, or musicians. Almost all of us knew all the others, or most of the others.
[00:19:53.69]
MINETTE MARTIN: What other projects did you know about at the time?
[00:19:59.15]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Lucien Labaudt's project, out at the—where was it? It was at the Beach Chalet and numerous other projects in schools, and whatnot. One of them is still extant. It's at one of the—it's a school out by the panhandle. I forget what its name is, but I will think of it.
[00:20:23.00]
MINETTE MARTIN: That's in San Francisco?
[00:20:24.57]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: That's in San Francisco, yes. And a lot of things have been destroyed, like Zakheim's murals at the Medical Center.
[00:20:36.05]
MINETTE MARTIN: I understand that some of these are being uncovered now.
[00:20:38.78]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Zakheim's?
[00:20:40.55]
MINETTE MARTIN: Yes.
[00:20:41.47]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: They were just whitewashed.
[00:20:44.00]
MINETTE MARTIN: They were whitewashed, and they're being uncovered.
[00:20:45.92]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: No, I thought they were destroyed in plaster.
[00:20:48.96]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, perhaps it was plaster, but at any rate—
[00:20:52.62]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: They're being uncovered?
[00:20:53.68]
MINETTE MARTIN: —some of them are being uncovered.
[00:20:56.35]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Ah. That'll be quite a spectacle. Anyhow, what else would you like to know?
[00:21:02.16]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, [audio cuts out] murals covered?
[00:21:06.57]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Oh, I am not sure. I never did see those Zakheim murals.
[00:21:16.77]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. I would like to ask you, what, in general, you think the WPA projects meant to the artists involved.
[00:21:25.44]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: What they meant was that we could do what we wanted to do and be paid for it, which hadn't been the case up to then. And all the artists were just madly enthusiastic, of course, because up to this time, no one bought art. They went to museums to look at art once in a while, but it wouldn't occur to anybody, except a few collectors and patrons of the arts, to buy anything.
[00:21:51.30]
And as to murals, nobody had ever seen them. As a matter of fact, quite a number of the artists, including myself, had never seen any murals, until we started doing it. First we saw was Diego Rivera's mural at the art school and, that was the big school for the rest of us. We watched him like hawks, and we went and did likewise as much as we could.
[00:22:23.35]
MINETTE MARTIN: In historical perspective, do you think that this era was very important to the arts in this country?
[00:22:32.98]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I think it was terrifically important, because it gave a great many artists the subsidy that they needed to make a real start, and it also was important because it educated the public. People began to think that possibly walls of buildings needed murals or could stand murals. It hadn't occurred to them before. And I think the most of the American public thought that all real painting had been done in the Renaissance, and stopped there. After the WPA, they observed that it could be done. Whether they liked it or not, they got used to it seeing it.
[00:23:17.95]
MINETTE MARTIN: I understand that many of the artists who worked on the project did become full-time painters later.
[00:23:25.52]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: They did, quite a number of them. Some of them were full-time painters before, only without much pay.
[00:23:38.38]
MINETTE MARTIN: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. What is your opinion as to what artists would do now, if they were offered the same opportunity?
[00:23:46.18]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I think they'd all do abstracts.
[00:23:49.09]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, I mean, do you think that they would like to—
[00:23:51.64]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Do you think—
[00:23:52.03]
MINETTE MARTIN: —have government subsidy now?
[00:23:55.48]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: Uh—I'm not sure. The art climate has changed so much. Artists have become prosperous, most of them. I don't know what the reaction would be to government subsidy. It would have to be a lot better paid than we were. We got very little pay, considering the tremendous amount of work we did, but we were delighted to do it. And we could live on it at that time. Of course, you couldn't now.
[00:24:24.55]
MINETTE MARTIN: Well, thank you very much, Mrs. Cravath.
[00:24:29.26]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: That was a pleasure.
[00:24:39.67]
[Recorder stops, restarts]
[00:24:39.81]
MINETTE MARTIN: Minette Martin interviewing Dorothy Cravath at her home at 2152 Ward Street, Berkeley, California, May 27, 1964. Mrs. Cravath, in our previous talk, you mentioned that there were a number of people who worked on the Coit Tower whom you knew about and that you would perhaps provide the archives with a list of them. Would you mind doing this now?
[00:25:12.98]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: The principals were John Howard, William Hastall, Ralph Stackpole, Suzanne Sheuer, Bernard Zakheim, Victor Arnautoff, George Harris, Freddie Vidar, Maxine Albro, Gordon Langdon, Ray Boynton, Clifford White, Mallette Dean, Parker Hall, Edward Terada, Ralph Chessé, Edith Hamlin, Ben Cunningham, Jane Berlandina, Otis Oldfield, Rinaldo Cuneo, and Lucien Labaudt. And of those, Lucien Labaudt, Rinaldo Cuneo, Ray Boynton, and Gordon Langdon, I know are dead.
[00:26:05.39]
MINETTE MARTIN: When we talked about the murals in the Fleishhacker Zoo Mother's House, in going over the tape again, I realize that perhaps it would be understood that the murals were in fresco technique. However, I understand that this really is not the case.
[00:26:26.31]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: No, they're in egg tempera, and we did them with egg yolk and very small brushes, even the 68-foot ones.
[00:26:38.49]
MINETTE MARTIN: I understand that you had some trouble at one point with the mites, with book mites eating the murals.
[00:26:47.58]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: We had a lot of trouble. At one—the walls were damp. I think that was part of the trouble. And the place was infested with book mites, which was most of the trouble. They loved egg tempera. And there were certain colors that they wouldn't touch at all and certain ones they adored, and they ate them to the ground, so to speak.
[00:27:10.43]
And among the colors that they liked especially were the outline colors, so that the murals got more and more hazy as time went on, and we couldn't think why. And we climbed up on ladders to see why they seemed to be fading, and we found that all the outlines, especially the dark ones, had been eaten up right to the ground by—or to the plaster, rather, by book mites.
[00:27:38.53]
MINETTE MARTIN: What did you do about this, then?
[00:27:40.84]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: [Laughs.] We made some more scaffolds, climbed up, carefully replaced all the outlines. And then we varnished the murals.
[00:27:51.76]
MINETTE MARTIN: Did you have any more trouble after that with book mites?
[00:27:54.43]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: We did. We had mostly trouble with the varnish disintegrating, and later, I spent three months out there taking the old varnish off, which had yellowed and dirtied, and putting new varnish on. And I don't think that this will yellow.
[00:28:11.41]
MINETTE MARTIN: Are the murals in very good condition now?
[00:28:15.28]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: They're in very good condition, except for one small place where the water has come in over the windward window, and which I intend to fix this year.
[00:28:27.49]
MINETTE MARTIN: Is there anything that you would like to add that you can think about now, about the Federal Arts Projects, about the WPA projects?
[00:28:38.90]
DOROTHY CRAVATH: I can't think of anything at the moment. I may later.
[00:28:41.29]
MINETTE MARTIN: All right. [They laugh.] Thank you very much.
[END OF TRACK AAA_cravat64_4268_r .]
[END OF INTERVIEW.]
