Transcript
Preface
The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Margaret Mallory on October 25, 1981. The interview took place in Montecito, California, and was conducted by Thomas Carr Howe for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution.
The original transcript was edited. In 2024 the Archives retranscribed the original audio and attempted to create a verbatim transcript. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Additional information added by the narrator to the original transcript has been added in brackets and given an –Ed. attribution.
Interview
[00:00:06.36]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: This is a beautiful afternoon, Sunday, October 25. And I have the great pleasure of sitting in the Biedermeier room of my old and dear friend, Miss Margaret Mallory in Santa Barbara. This has been a memorable weekend, of which we're going to speak in a minute. But I want to make the formal preliminaries which go into these things. This is a recording for the Archives of American Art, a branch of the Smithsonian Institution. And this interview is one of a series of oral histories, which is a specialty of the Archives of American Art, providing a wonderful reservoir of information for the use of future scholars.
[00:00:58.56]
Now, I said a moment ago that Miss Mallory, she didn't just jump at the chance, you might say, to be interviewed, and said she didn't know what to say. So I'll just say this. That's a lot of baloney, because she's one of the most articulate people I know. She is a terribly avid collector, one of great catholicity, and great tastes. And she has been an integral figure in the art and musical life of Santa Barbara for I won't say how many years. Now, I want her to tell you what has been going on here this weekend. What am I doing here, Margaret?
[00:01:41.89]
MARGARET MALLORY: You've talked me into this. But one of the reasons I'm willing to do it is I think the Archives is one of the most interesting developments in American history of art, because it will record live many living artists today. And unfortunately, those who have gone can only be talked about. And because you are one of my oldest friends, I've given in to the idea. [Laughs.]
But Tom, when you talk about collectors, I think I'm more of a pack rat than a collector. And I remember the first thing that ever came my way was when I was 18 years old, my family gave me a Chevrolet Roadster, and I took my mother to New Orleans. And when we came back—the Roadster had a rumble seat. It was a third passenger in the rumble seat, it was a wooden Indian. All wooden Indians that are female are called Pocahontas.
[00:02:28.39]
And it was terribly embarrassing at night because in those days, which was in the '30s, there were no motels where you could park the car and watch it. You had to take the wooden Indian in with you. And the hotel keepers were not terribly happy about that. But I went with my wooden Indian right across America. And it's now sitting in the Mystic Seaport Museum, of which I'm a board member, in front of the tobacconist's shop in Mystic, Connecticut. That's the first thing I ever acquired.
[00:02:55.54]
And the second thing was an Armenian lady that—I didn't acquire her. But she came to the door, every summer from somewhere, in Greenwich, Connecticut, where I was brought up, with a suitcase. And in it with linens, and laces, and sometimes bits of China. And I collected, then, a tea set. Mother thought I was insane. It came from the Hameau, the playhouse of Marie Antoinette. And you're sitting in the room with it right now. It really did belong to her. It's been authenticated. And it's in that wall niche over there.
[00:03:25.66]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Wow, how fascinating, Margaret.
[00:03:26.77]
MARGARET MALLORY: So it was really decorative arts, kind of, that caught my eye in the beginning. And I think the other thing, which means paintings, drawings, whatever, came because I was brought up near the Cos Cob artist. That was the next village to Greenwich. And the usher in my father's wedding was Gifford Beal, who was a great friend of ours.
[00:03:45.91]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: You have one of his works here.
[00:03:47.74]
MARGARET MALLORY: Yes, I have one of his. And he and his brother Reynolds Beal, his older brother, used to cruise with us on our boat. We used to go up the coast of Maine and down the inland waterways to Miami and Key West. And Reynolds Beal, his older brother, was a marvelous watercolorist. I believe I have over 30 of his watercolors which are like a log. Instead of writing in a book every night, he would sketch the harbors, put the names of the boats underneath. And because of my interest in Mystic, this is particularly of interest. Not only was it great watercolors, but many of these sailing vessels no longer exist. So he recorded types of ships that no longer are extant. And also sometimes, the owner's names are on them. And it is a marvelous record of a marvelous era in my life, which was my childhood. When I mentioned the Cos Cob artists, that was an interesting thing.
There was a place called Holley House, which was a boarding house. And Miss Holley married Elmer MacRae, who was the Secretary of the Armory Show. He was not the greatest artist, but he was a fairly good artist. And other artists used to come and spend the summers there, or at least a month of the summer. Twachtman lived in Greenwich. Boardman Robinson used to come and stay there. Also, Childe Hassam used to come and see his friends, although he primarily lived and worked in Old Lyme.
[00:05:09.50]
But there were many, many artists of that era that I used to see. I didn't know anything about art. My father was not an art collector, but he knew them as friends. And in those days, the artists used to go fishing with us, and sailing. And they all had children; we sort of grew up together. So in a way, I was surrounded by a sort of ambience of artists without really knowing anything about art.
[00:05:30.17]
And as I grew older and moved into New York to live, I then was writing music and also doing reviews for the theater. I used to go to galleries and look. But it didn't sink in too much. I'd buy an etching here, or I had a few things. I had James McBey, I think, was one of the first, and Cameron Haden, Seymour Haden, and Muirhead Bone. And they were more decorative. I just had the—I put them on the wall.
[00:05:56.36]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That was a perfectly nice—
[Recorder stops; restarts.]
[00:05:59.78]
We're about to resume our little talk. I forgot to mention at the beginning that the person who's doing the so-called interrogating is Thomas C. Howe, who earlier today, did a recording of Otto Wittmann. And I wanted Miss Mallory to explain what we're doing here at her house. The reason we stopped was a strange cat came into the house. And already, Miss Mallory has acquired two that don't really belong to her, and she can't get rid of them, so she didn't want to keep this third one. We just got up and put the cat out. And now, Miss Mallory is going to keep on talking.
[00:06:39.72]
MARGARET MALLORY: The reason we're here is that I've just had a rather significant birthday, as has Otto Wittmann. And I've known Tom Howe for over 30 years, thank goodness. He's my oldest friend on the West Coast. And we had a little gathering here last night, which was a lot of fun. And so this is the result. We're all sort of in a weakened condition. Therefore, I've agreed to talk. [They laugh.]
[00:07:00.90]
Well, to resume my career, I would say that partially, the idea of a collection came from travel. And I've acquired many decorative arts. I'm very interested in Baroque. I have two angels flying around the living room that I got in [Rothenburg –Ed.], and some chairs that came from Nuremberg. I have a Saint Rochas, which [was carved –Ed.] about 1720—
[00:07:24.96]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That's the wonderful one in [the corner tower –Ed.] off your—
[00:07:28.16]
MARGARET MALLORY: Dining room, yes. And it came from a church in Salzburg, but I bought it in Vienna. And when I was in Europe last year, Hanns Swarzenski happened to be here [in Santa Barbara –Ed.]. And he said, "Oh, I know who carved that." He said it's probably the only one in the United States. It was a Viennese—I mean, sorry, it was a Venetian artist who worked in Salzburg and in Vienna, and his name was Guilliano Guillani or something.
[00:07:51.30]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: I haven't heard his name.
[00:07:52.23]
MARGARET MALLORY: And he said it was very rare. Well, I never knew that, but I do now. And another object that I have is a primitive bird. It looks like an eagle sitting on a corn stalk. And that came from Perrysburg, Ohio. I was driving out to Santa Barbara [in 1952 –Ed.] and had stopped in Toledo, had seen Otto Wittmann there. And this was on the front porch of a farmhouse. So I got out of the car and I rang the doorbell. And there was an old farmer came out. And I asked him if he was interested in selling this. He said, "Well, I don't know why not." He said, "Grandpa carved it. Doesn't mean a thing to us." And he said, "If you give me $35, you can have it." [Naturally, I did. –Ed.] And it's really quite a rare piece of Americana.
[00:08:32.58]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: How fascinating.
[00:08:33.27]
MARGARET MALLORY: And I think that probably my interest in William Merritt Chase, of which I have five, came because Ala Story, who was the second Director of the Santa Barbara Museum of Art. When I met her, she was the director of the American British Art Center in New York. She came to this country from London, having previously been born in Vienna, and studied the School of Fine Arts there and progressed to this country. And she—
[00:08:58.44]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: She had an extraordinary career of eloping from her home at a very early age and going to London, didn't she?
[00:09:04.29]
MARGARET MALLORY: Well, she went to study for five months in London and stayed for 13 years. Her mother allowed her to [to go to London to be an au-pair –Ed.] and to study English. And also, she wanted to work in the art world. She wanted to be a painter, but she saw a van Gogh exhibition, and decided she'd be no painter. So she got into the administrative end of it. But she saw a painting by William Merritt Chase in New York in the Metropolitan. And she asked the curator why there were not more Chases being exhibited. And this was in about 1940, I would say, or '41.
[00:09:31.08]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Oh, well then that would have been at the time when Francis Taylor was Director, wasn't it?
[00:09:35.29]
MARGARET MALLORY: He was the Director. And at that time, the so-called abstract Americans were beginning to paint, and Chase was out of favor. She found out that there had been no retrospective or major show given since his death in 1916. So she organized a [marvelous –Ed.] show of Chase. She found members of his family still alive. And she organized the first retrospective since 1916. It was a smashing success. It brought him back into orbit. And about three months later, the John Herron Institute wrote to her and said, "How extraordinary that you have done this exhibition because we are about to do his Centennial. And you've done all the research for us." And then—
[00:10:16.32]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Yes, because he was intimately connected with my home state, Indiana.
[00:10:21.42]
MARGARET MALLORY: That's right. He was. Well, since then, as you probably all know, the Chases have become rare and valuable. And he has been known not only as a painter, but a great teacher, and many of his followers are collected today. He incidentally taught, at one time, Gifford Beal and also George O'Keeffe [and Charles Sheeler -Ed.]. That's how diverse the artists were.
[00:10:41.70]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That's interesting.
[00:10:42.39]
MARGARET MALLORY: One of the greatest things about Chase is the fact that he did not impose his own ideas on his pupils. He taught them how to draw, and then they were on their own. And one of his prized pupils was Lydia Field Emmett. And I have a painting by him of her, which I think is one of his best works. And right today, there's another painter, William Draper, who's a very fine portrait painter who works in her studio.
[00:11:08.60]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Oh, I didn't know that. Bill Draper is an old friend of mine too.
[00:11:11.42]
MARGARET MALLORY: Right, and he works there. It's very hard to define what I'm interested in. The turn-of-the-century Americans are the bulk of my collection. And I have everything from the letter known ones to more famous ones, such as Childe Hassam, Whittredge, Inness, Blakelock, and then I have Bricher, and Boggs, and Bierstadt.
[00:11:33.18]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Everett Shinn.
[00:11:34.56]
MARGARET MALLORY: Everett Shinn, and several Hassams, and Beals, of course. But also lesser known ones, such as Jervis McEntee, [and Beckwith –Ed.] who have probably become more and more known today. And Bricher is known, of course. And then I think that it's probably the quality of the work that interest me rather than the name. I have a lovely Alexander Wyant watercolor. I think it's one of the most beautiful watercolors I've ever seen. I'm also interested in drawings. I have many drawings. I have—as I told you earlier, I just bought a Claude Lorrain, a small Claude Lorrain, and a Huygens [the Younger –Ed.], and Picasso, a self-portrait in 1906.
[00:12:16.43]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Because that's fascinating, terribly interesting drawing, that early Picasso drawing.
[00:12:20.12]
MARGARET MALLORY: Yes. And then an earlier one, in 1898, done in Barcelona, which I just love. And Ben Shahn. I have a Lachaise. I have a—well, I could go on and on, I'm not trying to make a list of what I have. But I also have some German Expressionists, very few. [Emil Nolde, Ludwig Kirchner, Egon Schiele –Ed.] Georg Kolbe, I love that sculpture [inaudible] his favorite pupil. And Bourdelle, and I have a Maillol, which is outside in the garden, "Torso of Summer." I think it's the only one that's not in the museum. He made six of them [casts –Ed.].
[00:12:51.98]
Mirko [the Italian sculptor –Ed.], before he became non-objective. I absolutely love another artist, probably never heard of in this country, called Karl Heinz Krause. I have one called Olympia Janek [ph]. I have a Second Century B.C. Roman torso. I love sculpture; I wish I had more, as a matter of fact. I have a Gitov Knoop whom you may or may not know.
[00:13:13.36]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Oh, Gitov Knoop. I knew her as a friend. I think you probably introduced me to her.
[00:13:17.05]
MARGARET MALLORY: And the piece I have is her first abstract sculpture. She was a portraitist, did portrait heads. I have a self-portrait of Renée Sintenis, which I'm very fond of. Then I have a funny little drawing by Gerhard Marcks on a postcard. In 1976, the museum asked me if I'd like to put on a show, because something had fallen through in the summertime. And I thought, well, there's a horse show, one of the biggest in the country, the National Horse Show, and the Fiesta. So I'll do a show called "The Horse in Art." I didn't know what I was doing. But anyway.
[00:13:46.22]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: You mean you didn't know what you were getting into. I'm sure you knew what you were doing.
[00:13:50.51]
MARGARET MALLORY: Well, I just hit every museum director on the head that I knew. I went and visited them up and down the coast. I went to the basements of their museum. And coincidentally, several collections had been—they were stored in the basement of the County Museum. And there was a young man who had a racing stable in Santa Ynez Valley.
[00:14:10.67]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: You mean the County Museum in Los Angeles?
[00:14:13.37]
MARGARET MALLORY: Yes. And he had run into a mountain and killed himself in his plane, and the state was in litigation. The pictures were stored in the County Museum, and I persuaded the executors of the estate to loan them to me. And they were fascinating. I had a Degas bronze horse. I had all kinds of horse things from him, from Herring, Stubbs—not a Stubbs painting, but a Stubbs drawing.
[00:14:38.87]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: I remember you had a huge equestrian statue from the Legion of Honor Museum.
[00:14:43.13]
MARGARET MALLORY: That's right. And a very famous painting that you have in the de Young Museum which was by Carle Van Loo, "A Lady on Horseback," who turned out, from doing some research on it, was the first woman poet in Rome. She was Princess Boncompagni, but she had another name as a—I don't know if it's Arcadian, they gave them names like that.
[00:15:03.65]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: But that's in the Legion, you know.
[00:15:05.18]
MARGARET MALLORY: Is it in the Legion now?
[00:15:06.65]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: It's in the Legion of Honor.
[00:15:07.37]
MARGARET MALLORY: I didn't know that.
[00:15:08.33]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: It was given to us by Archer Huntington.
[00:15:09.53]
MARGARET MALLORY: That's right, that's right. And it covered the whole ground floor of the museum, except for the Oriental Gallery. And I mentioned Gerhard Marcks because I had borrowed a bronze horse from him, from a local collector. And I wrote him about it. He'd been in Santa Barbara. He knew a professor here. And I said I was so sorry that he wasn't able to see his beautiful horse in the proper setting in the museum with other horses. And I got a card back saying, "Dear Miss Mallory, thank you for the beautiful catalog. But why didn't I borrow the Duke of Wellington by Goya from the Prado?" And there's so much to say, I don't know where to begin or end.
[Recorder stops; restarts.]
[00:15:55.85]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well, I think one—Margaret, I think one thing that's been very interesting about your Pacific Coast life—because I remember when I came down here, it was after the war, and Donald Bear had died, who had been the director of the Santa Barbara Museum. And the new director was Ala Story, to whom you referred a few moments ago. And as I remember, the two of you took a house together here. And that—and you also—I remember the tact and charm that you displayed with the widow of the former Director, who had become, obviously, an old and dear friend.
[00:16:36.09]
MARGARET MALLORY: She is a dear friend, and I'm very, very fond of her.
[00:16:37.73]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Esther Bear.
[00:16:38.45]
MARGARET MALLORY: And Esther started probably the really most interesting gallery, I think, even then on the West Coast, although it was in Santa Barbara. There'd never been a serious thing, a gallery here. And because of her husband's knowledge and her contact with the living artists, it was one of the most exciting galleries that I could imagine. It was in a house that was built especially for her to live in. And she made it into a gallery house. And only stopped a few years ago when she became older. And she'd done it for a long time. But she was an innovator. She introduced many artists, including Bill Dole, [Sam Francis, George Rickey, and Howard Warshaw –Ed.]. William Dole, I think is one of the greatest artists from here. And I think this community is very exciting.
[00:17:18.00]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: But I think the way this whole community has changed since the opening of this museum back in 1940 or '41, whichever it was, and then the development simultaneously of another facet of the arts here, which I mentioned in my brief introduction of you. And that is the establishment here of the Music Academy of the West and the residence of Lotte Lehmann.
[00:17:44.68]
MARGARET MALLORY: And also the university, which I understand from New York, which I've just come from, has the finest art faculty on the West Coast. We have the most interesting scholars in the university. And the reason I went East was to go to the National Gallery for the opening of a Cubist print show, which was instigated by Dr. Burr Wallen, who's an excellent art historian here. And it will open to the National Gallery, will then go to Toledo, and then come here to the University [Art Gallery at the University of California in Santa Barbara –Ed.].
[00:18:14.82]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: When is that going to be here at your gallery?
[00:18:16.60]
MARGARET MALLORY: I think it's going to be here after Christmas, in January.
[00:18:19.84]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well, I remember after your friend Ala Story retired from the museum, from the Directorship, that you and she both took a very intensive interest—intense interest in the newly established gallery—
[00:18:39.16]
MARGARET MALLORY: A special job was created for her. She was called the Staff Specialist in Art University of California. And she put on the most exciting shows there because there'd never been a Surrealist show on the West Coast. She put on the first Surrealist show. She put on the first Constructivist show at the university. She did another William Merritt Chase show [the first West Coast William Merritt Chase Retrospective –Ed.] having done the one in New York. She had another William Merritt Chase show here, which was much more comprehensive, which opened the Huntington Gallery in New York Museum.
[00:19:10.58]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That, you told me a while ago, and I hadn't known that.
[00:19:11.99]
MARGARET MALLORY: That was the first show they put on. And it was fantastic, because by then, people knew that she was sort of a Chase expert. She'd done the catalog in New York. She had a more comprehensive catalog here. And now, that has become the reference book for the recent interest in Chase and everybody that writes about him and puts on a show, refers to her catalog.
[00:19:30.50]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: What always fascinated me, the extraordinary personal appeal to the exhibitions that Ala organized. There was a personal touch to them.
[00:19:40.73]
MARGARET MALLORY: Well she also, being a European, had a worldly approach to things. Now, the reason the university has a collection of bronze Renaissance and Baroque medals and plaquettes is because the Regents weren't so excited about buying it. So she got John Pope-Hennessey [Director of the Victoria and Albert Museum –Ed.] to write a letter to them, and John Walker [then-Director of the National Gallery in Washington –Ed.]. And that influenced the Regents to purchase the collection. They put up half the money, and the other half had to be raised. And that was because, as she once said, there are very few gentlemen left in the profession. She didn't mean gentlemen by birth, she meant by education, people who had lived abroad, studied abroad. It was easier in those days, it was less expensive. I'm sure when you got out of college, you went abroad. And most of the museum people, the" Paul Sachs boys—"
[00:20:26.00]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Every summer we went.
[00:20:27.95]
MARGARET MALLORY: Every summery, you'd go abroad.
[00:20:28.28]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: We went on—the Dutch tourist class was the third class.
[00:20:32.93]
MARGARET MALLORY: Exactly. You just went. That was all. And you sat on a ruin that you wrote about. And you were right there in Rome. And Ala felt very strongly about the European background, not because she was one, but she felt it was important for Americans to have another view of themselves. And by going abroad, you could look back and see perhaps you too had something that was worth exhibiting. I was very fortunate to be educated by Ala in many, many aspects of art.
[00:21:01.46]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well it was a most happy blending of two people with intensely original tastes that were not in any way imitative of the other.
[00:21:13.00]
MARGARET MALLORY: Not at all. I was a New Englander, and Ala was a Viennese. And I learned about European art. I didn't know anything about German Expressionists until I met her, although I had known Dr. Valentiner slightly. And I'd seen them. But I wasn't inured to them and didn't quite appreciate them. And I realize their strength now. They're entirely different than the Impressionists, which are so easy to love. I mean they're very—
[00:21:34.40]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That's right. They're easy to absorb.
[00:21:34.72]
MARGARET MALLORY: It's so beautiful. And I had to learn about other aspects of art. I was not very interested in abstract art. I understand it and I like it. My house doesn't lend itself to very much experimentation, because I have a conservative collection, mostly turn of the century [American and Baroque –Ed.].
[00:21:54.89]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well, of course, I think well the fascinating thing is about your setting is, as I mentioned earlier, its extraordinary versatility. We mentioned that we're doing this interview in your Biedermeier suite. It's a charming sitting room with fireplace and an adjoining bedroom. And it has the most extraordinary variety of things in it, not just Biedermeier furniture, but fascinating things on the walls.
[00:22:21.89]
MARGARET MALLORY: Well, objects are—I think anything that's beautiful fascinates me.
[00:22:24.86]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well, your whole house reflects that.
[00:22:26.72]
MARGARET MALLORY: And the furniture. I love [inaudible] furniture, I like painted furniture. I like that very much. Venetian mirrors. And they somehow hang together. But I feel that quality does hang together.
[00:22:36.70]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: You probably have forgotten about it, I imagine, or you're too modest to recall it, that some years ago, I hate to think how many now, the collection that you and Ala had formed were shown in several museums. Among them, the Legion of Honor Museum, where it was enormously appreciated.
[00:23:01.95]
MARGARET MALLORY: If I have time, I'll tell you a funny story. We also showed it in Phoenix. And they were beginning a thing called the Friends of Art, which was new to them. And the idea was to show a private collection or two, which were both our collections, and inspire some of their people to purchase works of art for the museum.
[00:23:19.59]
Vincent Price, Ala Story, and myself were the guests of honor. We arrived there, we were given a very lavish cocktail party and dinner. And all the bigwigs of Phoenix were present. And Clare Boothe Luce was on the board at that time. And after the dinner, which was rather, how shall I say—there were many potables—she came up to me, and she said, "I hope that you will consider leaving something—one of your collections—here to start the first gift from our Friends of Art."
[00:23:46.17]
So I offered her a Hans Erni drawing, which was rather large. I really didn't have any place to see it. She said, "Oh no, I don't think we'd like that. But what about one of your Chases?" Without thinking, I said, "Why not?" And I gave her the most beautiful pastel by Chase, of a woman—well, it's called the "White Rose." It's absolutely lovely. At that time, I did not know that Mr. Chase was one of the founders of the American Pastel Society; that it's valuable beyond words today. And every time I go there, I almost die. It's hanging in the entrance as you go. The first thing you see is the "White Rose by William Merritt Chase, gift of Margaret Mallory." I wish I had it back.
[00:24:24.90]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That would keep me out of that town forever. Well, I think we're getting awfully near the end of our nice tape.
[00:24:29.96]
MARGARET MALLORY: Many incidents, but I can't go on.
[00:24:32.94]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Now, you see this business wasn't so terrifying or difficult, was it?
[00:24:37.44]
MARGARET MALLORY: No, it wasn't, but I want that edited right out. [Laughs.]
[00:24:39.42]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: But listen.
[00:24:41.13]
MARGARET MALLORY: I've never been terrified of you. Talking to you is easy.
[00:24:44.04]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: Well, listen, this is all good. And I'm sure you're going to feel that this is just chapter one, and you're going to want to talk at some other time.
[00:24:51.24]
MARGARET MALLORY: Well, of course, I'm a talker.
[00:24:53.06]
THOMAS CARR HOWE: That's fine. Well, listen, let me say thank you very much. You've just listened to an interview with Margaret Mallory of Santa Barbara. The interrogator was Thomas C. Howe of San Francisco. And Miss Mallory is going to make this one of a series, I'm sure.
[END OF TRACK AAA_mallor81_5327_m]
[END OF INTERVIEW.]
