Transcript
Preface
Tape-recorded Interview with Ruth Ellsworth,
Oliver E. Walsh's [Grand]daughter
at the Artist's [Home, [Grand]daughter's Home] in Spickard, Missouri
November 9, 1983
Willem Volkersz, Interviewer
Editor's Note:
This transcript is from a series of recordings made by Willem Volkersz over a number of years. They are not formal interviews, but rather records of conversations, often taped during photo-taking tours of the artist's studios or home collections.
The naive/visionary artists in these interviews have unique verbal mannerisms, many of which are difficult or impossible to transcribe accurately into written form. Thus, for grasping certain nuances of speech, researchers will find it advantageous to listen to the original tapes.
Our intent in transcribing these interviews was nonetheless to translate as accurately as possible the spoken word into a comprehensible written form, making changes to clarify but not to interpret. Thus the speaker's grammar is unedited. For example, "them" for "those," "theirselves," and "gotta" were all transcribed as heard. On the other hand, certain changes were made for clarity: "'cause," was transcribed as "because," "'fore" as "before," "'yo" as "your," etc.
Other editorial notations are as follows: Bracketed words are of two types. Those with "[—Ed.]" or "[—WV]" are inserted by the transcriber, editor, or Volkersz. Other bracketed words indicate uncertainty: Two or more words or phrases indicate possible alternatives; "[unintelligible]" and "_____" indicate words that are garbled or incomprehensible on the tape, the former being a much longer phrase than the latter; "[noise]" is self-explanatory.
The original format for this document is Microsoft Word 365 version 1908. Some formatting has been lost in web presentation. The "Editor's Note" has been added for clarity in web display.
Interview
RE: Ruth Ellsworth
WV: Willem Volkersz
[Tape 1, side A; Volkersz' No. W1-1]
[Much of this tape is nearly inaudible. An additional person is present at the interview, designated as Male Voice (MV). WV lists RE as Walsh's daughter, but it sounds from the info on the tape like she might be his granddaughter—Ed.]
WV: My, there's quite a few pieces here.
RE: Well, I guess really I shouldn't have sold a lot of things that I did, but, you know, I thought maybe I could sell and move on [unintelligible] Just too much for me.
WV: Oh, that's what you're planning to do?
RE: That's what I'd like to do.
WV: I see, uh huh.
RE: And so I've _____ a lot of things.
WV: Of some of the things that were sold, did it include some of these?
RE: No. No.
WV: Because I didn't know, of course, what else to expect, you know and these are wonderful.
RE: Now, he didn't make only a few of those, and he gave them all to the family.
WV: Boy, they're just beautiful.
RE: And, [of] course, Grandpa didn't have any electric tools at all. This was just all mostly by pocket knife.
WV: You say he lived on a farm in this area, most of his life?
RE: Uh, yes, He lived west of _____, northwestern _____ _____.
WV: Do you. . . . Did he, was he always carving? You said that he always had a knife with him and he was always busy?
RE: [Now, No], these things right here I found upstairs. [unintelligible] And he even painted that, so he was _____ _____. [unintelligible]
WV: Oh yes. September 20th, 1892? 1892 or 94?
RE: '4.
WV: '4, I think. You know, interestingly enough, one of the pieces that we, that I bought was his initials as well.
RE: Uh huh.
WV: But these were probably made when he was real. . . .
RE: That was when he was young.
WV: Real young yet.
RE: Uh huh. [continues talking? inaudible]
WV: Oh!
RE: And this was a piece of driftwood. Out in California. He went out there in later years for the winter.
WV: Oh, he did? Did he have family there?
RE: Yes, his daughter.
WV: Uh huh.
RE: And he _____ _____ spend the winter.
WV: Oh.
RE: And then the last, oh, three years, I guess, he lived out there _____.
WV: Oh, so did he die there?
RE: Yes, they brought him back.
WV: Oh, _____.
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: Did he have a large family?
RE: Uh, yes. I have some pictures here I wanted you to. . . . (laughs)
WV: Oh, great! That's great.
RE: And this was, I thought you'd want to see _____ _____ pictures.
WV: Oh, look at that. And that, this was taken when? Do you remember? Or, is it dated _____? Oh, there we go. Oh, yeah, that's right. [1895, That's '95]. That's wonderful.
RE: (laughs)
WV: That's wonderful to see that. And you can imagine my delight in getting a response from you. . . .
RE: Well, I was. . . .
WV: . . . because here I saw these beautiful objects in a second hand store, an antique store, and I loved them and I wanted to buy them, and they mentioned, they. . . . There was a name Ellsworth associated with it, you know.
RE: Yes, that's mine.
WV: And so, I thought, well, you never know, you know. So that's wonderful to see that information.
RE: And [then] he played the violin.
WV: Oh, boy. That's great.
RE: _____ _____ he didn't like this kind of weather, because he liked to sit outside all the time, and that was when it was bad, _____ _____ he moved to California.
WV: [unintelligible]
RE: And he had his box of, to put his shavings in.
WV: Uh huh.
RE: When he was. . . . He learned to knit after he was ninety.
WV: Really!
RE: (laughs)
WV: That's great.
RE: [Well, But] he didn't care much for that.
WV: Now did he farm most of his life?
RE: Yes.
WV: Uh huh.
RE: Yes. Yes, and I even found the papers up there of where he bought his farm.
WV: _____ _____ it. Interesting.
RE: (laughs)
WV: Uh.
RE: And what he give for it.
WV: Um hmm. It's wonderful to have some of these documents, isn't it?
RE: Uh huh.
WV: So you have something you can go by [unintelligible]. What was his middle name?
RE: Edward.
WV: Edward. Uh huh.
RE: Uh huh. Then I found the papers, but I gave them to my brother, where he bought a Ford Roadster, gave seventy-five dollars for it.
WV: (laughs)
RE: As of nineteen and twenty-five. (laughs)
WV: Amazing. [unintelligible]
RE: Yes. This is [his Jeff].
WV: Was that taken on the farm?
RE: No, that was up where we live. _____ _____ _____. This was his [unintelligible] This is wonderful. [unintelligible]
WV: So you've lived here all your life?
RE: Uh. . . .
WV: Most of your life? In this area?
RE: Yes, in _____ _____.
WV: Uh huh. _____ wonderful to see. The person's coming alive for me now. That's wonderful, you know.
RE: And this was his [unintelligible]
WV: Oh, a great photograph. You can see the family traits in these other photographs, too, a certain common facial features.
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: What a great photograph. [unintelligible]
RE: And this is when he got married. (laughs)
WV: When was that? Do you remember?
RE: Uh, no, but I can tell you.
WV: That's all right. I'm just curious. [pause] Oh, look at that! Isn't that beautiful? [Over your walls in Medina. _____ _____ Medina. Okay, born in Princeton, fourteenth day of August 1895. What a beautiful thing to have.
RE: They moved around a lot.
WV: Oh, I'm sure. Now are you sort of the official records keeper in the family?
RE: I guess. (laughs)
WV: Uh huh. Well, it's nice to have those. I mean, my father was, and _____ _____ and my father died recently it was, went to my brother and, I don't know, somebody.
RE: And he just has one daughter. That's all of his children.
WV: And she must be, you know. . . .
RE: She's seventy-nine. [telephone rings] (laughter) I'm sorry.
WV: That's all right.
[Interruption in taping; there is a 20- or 30-second gap in our tape. My helper inadvertently erased a portion of one tape and I foolishly didn't write down which one. I think this is probably it. If so, if you can spare your copy of the tape (or make me another one), I'll transcribe the missing material—Ed.]
RE: . . . [that, in] May. They moved the house, and it's west [of Prince]. They built another room on.
WV: Yeah.
RE: They built _____ _____ right here.
WV: [unintelligible]
RE: Uh huh.
WV: I assume the land's still in the family, or not?
RE: Yes. _____, yes.
WV: [unintelligible]
RE: Um hmm.
WV: [unintelligible]
RE: That's my grandparents on the other side [of the family—Ed.]. (chuckles)
WV: Did you know them?
RE: No. No, really, Grandpa Walsh is the only grandparent that I knew. See, his wife passed away when I was just two, three [months, weeks] old.
WV: Oh.
RE: And then Dad's side, Dad's father passed away when he was just [eight].
WV: Hmm.
RE: And then his mother passed away when [he, I] was about five, so I just saw her two or three times. So Grandpa here is the only (chuckles) grandparent in my life.
WV: Huh.
RE: And this is [unintelligible]
WV: [unintelligible]
RE: [unintelligible] married _____.
WV: [Reading:] "Son of Daniel and Eugen. . . ."
RE: [Eugenie, You-keen-ie].
WV: ". . . Eugenie Walsh, he was born July 17, 1889, in a log cabin near [Modena]. He spent his early life [far west] of Modena. [unintelligible] dates for [unintelligible] high school in [Stanbury, Sandbury]. _____ _____ was married August 14, 1895, to Mary Alice Edwards, and they moved to a farm near the _____ [unintelligible]
He would walk to the business section of Modena several times a day to talk and sit on a bench and whittle. He made [many] miniature saws, axes, log cabins, and chains cut from one piece of wood, and he gave away many of them."
RE: _____ always ready to [start].
WV: [continuing to read:] "He could read without glasses." [unintelligible] "He learned to knit after he was ninety years old, but says he would rather whittle."
RE: (giggles)
WV: "He has eight grandchildren, seventeen great-grandchildren, and two great-great grandchildren."
RE: Did you get any of those chains? [unintelligible]
WV: Well, no. Let me show you what I got _____.
RE: I don't think I sold any chains.
WV: You stay there, and I'll get it. It'll be interesting for us to see if there's anything you can tell us about any of these. For example, I noticed that this mailbox [post] is very similar to the mailbox there.
RE: Uh huh.
WV: A little larger.
RE: Yes, he made so many.
WV: And as you said, you might be able to give some sense of dates, or anything like that. [WV: I didn't add any Ed. blanks when specific pieces were being referred to as I figured you probably wouldn't know that information after this length of time, but if you are able to you might add information as to titles or descriptions of specific pieces.—TR]
RE: So many things he had fixed and then they, they got broke.
WV: They were like on little bases, you mean?
RE: Um hmm. [unintelligible]
WV: Huh, yeah. I really like this one. It's a, [got a, kind of] got a nice little ladder going up the side of a tower. Looks like he just used some enamel paint to paint these, right?
RE: Um hmm.
WV: Now are any of these, you think from periods that you can tell. . . . Here's his initials.
RE: Umm. . . . [unintelligible]
WV: I got up _____.
RE: [Old lady].
WV: Right.
RE: Let's see. . . . Most of those I'd say are from the fifties.
WV: Really?
RE: Yeah. Let's see.
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: Late fifties?
RE: Um hmm.
WV: This is nice, this little bookcase with all these books on it. I mean, like the. . . . This is what made me think maybe it dollhouse furniture. Of course, it isn't.
RE: Yeah. Now that's, that was made in forties.
WV: That was made in the forties?
RE: Um hmm.
WV: How do you rec[ognize] . . . . You just remember?
RE: Yeah. (laughs)
WV: Really! Good for you! Huh! 'Cause you, were you around him a lot? Clearly.
RE: Oh yes.
WV: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause you lived nearby and. . . .
RE: And I [walked] _____ _____ [school].
WV: Oh, I see, uh huh.
RE: And [unintelligible]
WV: And how about all these little houses and little churches and things? Are they, do you think those are from the fifties?
RE: Uhh, that's early sixties.
WV: You mean the white one with the green roof?
RE: Yes, um hmm.
M?V: [unintelligible]
WV: Yeah, I was. . . .
RE: (chuckles)
MV: [unintelligible]
WV: I've got 'em all numbered. You'd say, what, late 1960s, this one?
RE: Early.
WV: Or early.
RE: Um hmm.
MV: [unintelligible]
WV: Oh, that's right, yeah. And this you would say, would you say late forties?
RE: That's the forties.
WV: Late forties, or just 19. . . . We can say 1940s.
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: Would he complete something fairly quickly, or did it take him a long time?
RE: Usually he would. But now he makes a long _____, he _____ it real long.
WV: Uh huh.
RE: Then he'd just pick it up and work _____ _____. (giggles) [If] he'd just keep at it, it'd take _____ _____.
WV: Oh sure, it would take a long time, yeah.
RE: But he'd [give, do] [sewing] and all.
WV: Do you think something like this would be patterned after anything? Do you recognize it as a shape of anything, or is that just a shape that he just invented?
RE: No, he'd just start in, and he didn't even know a lot of things what they was gonna turn out to be stuff like this.
WV: Uh huh, right.
RE: Uh huh.
WV: How about all these, these pieces here? Would you have any idea as to what they might date?
RE: Those are fifties, the white things. [unintelligible]
WV: He must have carved his initials a number of times.
RE: Oh yes, uh huh. And then he made this little whatnot shelf _____. See, he put, here's the _____ and here's the _____ _____ _____.
WV: Oh, right.
RE: And he made these little _____s ______ things, but they break off.
WV: Oh yes. Yes, they [glue, do].
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: Now would that ax have been carved from the same piece of wood or not?
RE: No.
WV: Separate piece.
RE: He'd make a _____ _____ it. Fits down in.
WV: Um hmm.
RE: Now those chains, all those chains are carved from one piece of wood.
WV: Yeah, that's so amazing.
RE: Yes, because some of 'em's real long. Have you looked in these?
WV: I haven't carefully looked at 'em yet, no, I _____ _____.
RE: You know, some things I can, I can remember exactly when [they were made]. (chuckling)
WV: Huh.
RE: [unintelligible]
WV: Oh, wagons, yeah. Oh, that's wonderful.
MV: [unintelligible]
RE: That one is my sister's. She brought it up last night so. . . .
WV: Oh, how nice.
RE: I gave it to her, and I wanted you to see it, so _____ she brought it up [unintelligible]
WV: Oh, that's nice.
RE: [unintelligible] I forgot my [unintelligible]
WV: Now this is very similar to like one that I have there, too.
RE: Uh huh. And he made the _____.
WV: And these are some things [that are] almost amazing today. (laughs)
RE: Yes, he _____ _____, he did a lot of things.
WV: Yeah. As you say, it was all [like, by] just a pocket knife or. . . .
RE: Uh huh. It was all _____ _____.
MV: You see a lot of these [unintelligible]
RE: Well, he, he'd make something _____ for us, why he'd put my name on it or mother's name, or. . . . And he would [unintelligible] [His] mother had a heart attack. She was down with, in bed and she'd give her a [card, cars], so he sent those things to California—right here, these little _____. Oh, and he said _____, well, that was something she do.
WV: Ohh.
RE: There's the [camp dragon], the ball, and cup and saucer.
WV: Oh, they're wonderful. Oh.
RE: And the [bread]. [And the good. Isn't he good?]
WV: He sounds like he was a most loved man, too.
RE: Uh huh! Yes. I thought a lot of Grandpa.
WV: Now the wood, was that mostly like scraps of wood that he'd have on the farm.
RE: Uh huh. [phone rings, which she apparently ignores—Ed.]
WV: He never went out and bought wood for _____.
RE: Huh uh. And when he was out in California, they [gave him] redwood, you know, out there.
WV: Oh yeah, yes.
RE: Then I [want, wanted] you to see these. That's _____.
WV: Oh yes.
RE: He used to work with these [batteries].
WV: Yeah.
RE: I guess they're _____, for some reason.
[Interruption in taping]
WV: . . . no, we have to take 'em [photographs—Ed.] outside. It's such a gray day that I don't if it's. . . . I can see, but, if there's enough light around _____, _____ _____, but it might not be. That's great.
Did he have a lot of different knives to work with?
RE: Oh, yes. And whenever Christmas or his birthday came, he was disappointed if he didn't get a new [knife].
WV: (chuckles)
RE: So, you know, we'd just [get, give] him all kinds. He had such [a variety] of knives.
WV: Yeah.
RE: And he kept 'em just as sharp as a razor.
MV: Have to.
RE: And that's one I miss is him sharpening my scissors and knives and and that. And then in the wintertime, he would make ax handles and hammer handles and things [as] that, you know.
WV: Uh huh.
MV: I wonder what this was, with these [boots] and things.
RE: (chuckles) A shoe shiner.
WV: Shoe shiner. Oh, I see, yeah. Quite an imagination.
RE: But he couldn't make animals, and he. . . .
WV: He tried?
RE: Yes. And that worried because he _____, he carved animals.
WV: Now, would you have written that, or would he have written that on there? Your name.
RE: [Now] I think he did. That's. . . .
WV: To give to you.
RE: Uh huh. That's real _____, probably in the late thirties.
WV: Oh, really?
RE: Or early, _____, early, or early forties.
WV: And then these little log cabins would be made as gifts for individual family members?
RE: He. . . . Uh huh. And then he was disappointed if they didn't take care of 'em. He made his boy one, and he just set it outside, you know.
WV: Oh, yeah.
RE: Oh, of course, it was soon ruined.
WV: Yeah, yeah.
RE: _____ _____ he had spent hours on that one, carved with a knife.
WV: Did anybody outside the family ever recognize him for his carving ability? Were there articles about him, or anything like that.
RE: Huh uh. And he was so disappointed.
WV: Huh.
RE: He, I mean, he wanted to make things and sell them. And back then, [there, they] just wasn't _____ interested in it.
WV: Huh.
RE: And that. . . . Every time when anyone'd come, he'd want to give 'em a piece to take with 'em, give 'em something _____, of course.
WV: Huh. That's great.
RE: You know, things like that [______—Ed.] he didn't, only to the family, but these other pieces, why he liked to give 'em away.
WV: That's great. Yeah, I collect folk art myself, and I'm organizing an exhibition for the Kansas City Art Institute right now of work by folk artists that's going to be for sale. And so when I saw those, the ones that I bought in James[port, ford], I bought them to resell them, although I'm going to keep some of them, because I really like them very, very much.
RE: [Um hmm.] Well, I was glad to get your letter and think that someone was interested in his work.
WV: Right, yeah. I'm going to go back there—we haven't there yet today, and probably won't make it today, but maybe tomorrow—and there were some small things, I think, that were left. It looked like maybe he was making, the man in the shop was making pendants out of them, or something like it. He was putting little eye screws in 'em, doing something, so I'll have to see if there's any left. He said he had some more that he didn't want to sell, or something like that. Would you at all be interested in selling any of these pieces?
RE: No. (chuckles)
WV: This is it, huh?
RE: Uh huh.
WV: I just thought I'd ask you.
[Tape 1, side B]
WV: Now was the man in Jamesport, was he the one that bought most of the carvings? Or were there other people that bought carvings?
RE: No, there were others, too.
WV: Oh, really, huh. Did any of them buy for resale, or would you even know?
RE: I don't know.
WV: Yeah.
RE: It's just, you know, just antique stores bought 'em.
WV: Yeah, hah. Probably just. . . .
RE: No, [they'd] just saw one man here from the state of Washington.
WV: Really! [WV spent some time in Washington state, I think—TR]
RE: And, but I'm not sure, I don't think he bought anything.
WV: Huh.
RE: But he was sure curious.
WV: At the, at the _____ _____.
RE: _____. And there was a woman the day before, a-lookin' at things, from England. (chuckles)
WV: Gee! That's incredible.
RE: So you get to meet a lot of people.
WV: Yeah. How long did the sale last? Just a couple of days.
RE: No, it was just one afternoon. WV: Oh, it was one afternoon, I see.
RE: Uh huh, just had an auction _____ _____.
WV: And that was earlier this year.
RE: That was June 11th.
WV: I see. Huh! So I saw these things. . . . Well, actually, you [MV?— Ed.] saw them, and he told me about them, and then I went up to Jamesport a couple days later and I caught them.
RE: Well, I think [unintelligible]
WV: Gee! So it was really. . . . That's amazing!
RE: Um hmm.
WV: That's amazing! I had no idea.
MV: Well, what. . . . Huh! Now I'm not sure whether I've seen them before.
WV: Maybe you saw something else then, because you said there. . . . He had been on a trip to Jamesport and told me that there were some things in, at [Ellis] Antiques that I should look at or something. So I went up there. But maybe you saw something. . . .
RE: _____ _____ the day [they, you] came in.
WV: Sounds like it, because that's. . . .
RE: I'm sure I would have seen those, because it looks like so much. _____ _____ in the boxes. [unintelligible]
WV: Yeah. Did he, was he also a carpenter, in terms of building houses and [did, his] barns and that kind of thing, or large furniture, or. . . .
RE: He built on his own [house—Ed.].
WV: Uh huh.
RE: Because [that, there] was just two rooms when he moved it up there, and built, he put more rooms on it. [unintelligible] And then he raised horses.
WV: Huh.
RE: (chuckles) Just a few, you know.
WV: What kind of farming did he do?
RE: Ohhh, corn, _____ corn and [unintelligible]
WV: Hmm.
RE: And he just kep' a few cows and milking cows and _____ chickens.
WV: Yeah, I see, right. Well, I'm delighted to have seen them. I think that it so gray I don't think I oughta make any attempt to even to try to photograph. It's just too gray. But it's possible. . . . You're gonna move to Trenton [_______—WV], you think?
RE: Well, I won't even think about it now [until] spring, but. . . .
WV: Yeah.
RE: But I'd like, you know, since I don't drive, my sister [unintelligible]
WV: Well, perhaps some time when the weather is better, it might be, it'd be nice to probably come with the tripod and really get fairly close in and take some good photographs of them. I'd love to, if I could sometime, to have a nice. . . . I'll photograph the pieces that I have in the studio, and so that I have, for own collection _____ _____ documentation so that I can show it to other people. I do lectures about folk art in other parts of the country as well, so I will spread his [word, words]. It's better late than never.
RE: (chuckles)
WV: Too bad that he couldn't rejoice in having people recognize him, you know, for that.
RE: Uh huh. [unintelligible] talking to you.
WV: He'd sit there and whittle and talk probably, right?
RE: Uh huh. [unintelligible] after his wife died [unintelligible] a few years before he remarried, and then she didn't live very long. And he lived out there on the farm, and it seemed so lonesome all alone _____ _____, and then he got a chance to sell and [unintelligible]
WV: Well, he lived a long time.
RE: Um hmm.
WV: He lived a long time. I'm thinking 94 or 96, or something like that, right?
RE: He passed away in April, and his birthday would have been in July, and then he'd have been [96, 86]. [WV check this. Assuming the 1889 birthdate is correct, that would mean he couldn't have died until 1985, two years after the interview. Or did she say 86? It really sounded more like 96.—TR]
WV: Uh huh. Huh.
RE: He passed away at ninety- . . . 95, almost 96.
WV: 95, yeah, that's incredible.
RE: And he was never. . . . I never knew of him a-going to the doctor until just. . . .
WV: Till late in life.
RE: . . . just late, uh huh.
WV: Yeah. That's marvelous, just marvelous. Well he probably led a real healthy kind of life.
RE: Uh huh.
WV: He worked hard, and he was outdoors a lot, probably ate well, and. . . .
RE: Um hmm. Don't have the stress and tension like people today.
WV: That's true. That's very true. It's very different. Yeah, they really think that stress leads to an awful lot of disease. [pause] Looks like he was a fairly tall man [looking at photographs?—Ed.].
RE: He was tall and slim.
WV: Yeah.
RE: This is one of his. . . .
WV: Oh!
RE: But it wasn't dated.
WV: Gee.
RE: And this, this is his two sisters.
WV: Oh, look at that!
RE: Their clothes, I like. I enjoy looking at their clothes back. . . .
WV: That's great. [Isn't this, This is] marvelous[?, .]
RE: And the little boys _____ up the collars.
WV: So were there pieces of his. . . . I mean, he, like, something like this was carved real early [c. 18___, 19____—WV], and some of the other carvings were like in the fifties and sixties, were there pieces that he did all the way through? Or were there periods when he didn't carve too much?
RE: He just always, ever since I can remember.
WV: Did the subject matter change at all, or was it mostly. . . . Were there periods when he did one thing more than another, would you say?
RE: No-o-o, not really. He'd just see something interesting to do, just like the chains, now he never made those. . . . I can't remember any until later _____.
WV: Oh, I see.
RE: In the fifties. And those little [cars, bars, flowers], I don't know where he learned to make those. And then he made several, and he'd teach others how to [cut 'em, carve] _____ _____, and. . . .
WV: Oh, really, huh. There were other people around who were interested in carving and. . . .
RE: They'd come from all _____ _____. (chuckles)
WV: Oh, really? That's great, that's great.
RE: Younger, younger [people].
WV: Right, right.
MV: [unintelligible]
WV: Oh, yeah, you can see [unintelligible]
RE: He got water _____ _____, _____ [tent] in the summer.
WV: Ah, uh huh.
RE: [And, So] that was in the late thirties, when he made that.
WV: And then later on the enamels came.
RE: Uh huh.
WV: Huh?
RE: A little bit like the log cabins. Now he never made any of those in the fifties.
WV: Huh.
MV: How many log cabins do he think he produced?
RE: Oh, boy, I don't know. Not too many. Course he, while he was out in California, he made a lot of things out there he just left, _____ left out there, so I don't know what he did, really.
WV: Yeah, that's true.
RE: But Christmas, he'd always [unintelligible]
WV: So he used 'em for Christmas gifts and things like that, too?
RE: Yes, um hmm.
WV: That's great. [Mysterious] little things [unintelligible]
RE: But now, of course, he made smaller _____ _____ _____ when he was young. That was, he had a box of _____ _____ from all over.
WV: Oh, I wish I would have known about your sale, but. . . . (laughs)
RE: Uh huh.
WV: Boy. I was real happy to find them. And surprised, because you don't find, oh, really kind of nicely done carvings like that all that frequently, you know, and not in a second-hand shop.
RE: And they just don't do that, you know.
WV: Right. Yeah. It's really, it's a very special skill, and people of course had the time, as you say, like there was, there were evenings to whittle away, literally, you know.
RE: Uh huh. And when it was raining [unintelligible] But he didn't like cloudy, rainy weather. He said it got him out [of, a] [fix, fits]. (laughter)
WV: That's wonderful. [I'm going to need, And then he] to incorporate that driftwood. There's a nice little bird. Well, I appreciate your time. I think what I will try to do is stay in touch with you, or try and find you in Trenton, if and when you move, and maybe under better circumstances, you know, try to photograph some of them and have them in slide form.
RE: Um hmm.
WV: So that I can show 'em to audiences, you know, that way. 'Cause I'm just. . . . It was, it's really interesting for me to see the other kinds of things that he did, too. I mean, I saw, just what I saw there pretty much in the shop, and I didn't know about the little log houses and things, of course, didn't know anything about his history, so I'm delighted to have that information.
Oh, those are. . . . Are those little candleholders his, too, or not?
RE: No, huh uh. No.
WV: Oh, okay. It does look like they're turned on a lathe, actually.
RE: Yes, they, my cousin made it with woodworking in high school.
WV: Well, you were lucky to have such a wonderful grandfather. Boy. Really special.
RE: He was a so-o-o good to me. (chuckles) We always lived close, and. . . .
WV: Yeah, that's great.
RE: . . . he'd come by and bring me candy, and. . . . (chuckles)
WV: That's great.
RE: Yes, real [unintelligible]
WV: Great. Well. . . .
[End of interview]
